Legislature(2011 - 2012)HOUSE FINANCE 519

01/19/2012 01:30 PM House FINANCE


Download Mp3. <- Right click and save file as

Audio Topic
01:35:32 PM Start
01:38:20 PM Overview of the Governor's Fy 2013 Budget: Legislative Finance Division
02:19:27 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ Overview: Governor's FY13 Budget Proposal by TELECONFERENCED
David Teal, Director, Legislative Finance Div.
                  HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE                                                                                       
                     January 19, 2012                                                                                           
                         1:35 p.m.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:35:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CALL TO ORDER                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stoltze called the House Finance Committee meeting                                                                     
to order at 1:35 p.m.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Bill Stoltze, Co-Chair                                                                                           
Representative Bill Thomas Jr., Co-Chair                                                                                        
Representative Anna Fairclough, Vice-Chair                                                                                      
Representative Mia Costello                                                                                                     
Representative Mike Doogan                                                                                                      
Representative Bryce Edgmon                                                                                                     
Representative Les Gara                                                                                                         
Representative David Guttenberg                                                                                                 
Representative Reggie Joule                                                                                                     
Representative Mark Neuman                                                                                                      
Representative Tammie Wilson                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
None                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
ALSO PRESENT                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
David Teal, Director, Legislative Finance Division;                                                                             
Representative Alan Austerman.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SUMMARY                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
OVERVIEW OF THE GOVERNOR'S FY 2013 BUDGET:                                                                                      
     Legislative Finance Division                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Thomas introduced constituents from Skagway and                                                                        
welcomed them to the committee room.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
^OVERVIEW OF THE GOVERNOR'S FY 2013 BUDGET: LEGISLATIVE                                                                       
FINANCE DIVISION                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:38:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DAVID  TEAL, DIRECTOR,  LEGISLATIVE FINANCE  DIVISION (LFD),                                                                    
agreed  with  comments  made by  Office  of  Management  and                                                                    
Budget (OMB)  Director Karen Rehfeld  who had  discussed the                                                                    
governor's  FY  13  operating  budget   the  prior  day.  He                                                                    
explained that  LFD agreed with the  governor's presentation                                                                    
of the  budget; the OMB  fiscal summaries matched on  a fund                                                                    
group and dollar basis.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr.   Teal   began    a   PowerPoint   presentation   titled                                                                    
"Legislative Fiscal Analyst's Overview  of the Governor's FY                                                                    
13 Budget" and  relayed his intent to look at  the budget in                                                                    
the context  of Alaska's  future. He informed  the committee                                                                    
that the  LFD Legislative  Fiscal Analyst's Overview  of the                                                                    
Governor's Request  for the  FY 13  budget was  available on                                                                    
the LFD  website (copy on  file). The book  included capital                                                                    
and operating  budget fiscal summaries and  agency operating                                                                    
budget details.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Teal believed  the LFD  report contained  a significant                                                                    
amount of good  news. There was a $3.7  billion surplus that                                                                    
consisted of $1.9  billion from FY 12 and  $1.8 billion from                                                                    
FY  13.  He relayed  that  the  current surplus  was  "huge"                                                                    
compared to  budget surpluses in  past years.  He elaborated                                                                    
that in  the prior year  the total  FY 11/FY 12  surplus had                                                                    
initially  been $25  million. The  FY 12  surplus had  grown                                                                    
above $400 million  and high oil prices had  increased it to                                                                    
$1.9 billion.  He expounded that the  available $3.7 billion                                                                    
surplus  was over  25 percent  of the  $14 billion  that had                                                                    
been set aside beginning in 2005.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Teal  shared that it  was good news that  the governor's                                                                    
operating budget  growth rate  was 3.2  percent and  not the                                                                    
7.8 percent rate that had been in place since 2005.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:41:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Teal pointed  to slide  1 titled  "Unrestricted General                                                                    
Fund  Revenue/Budget."  The  chart  illustrated  what  would                                                                    
happen if agency operating budgets  continued to grow at 7.8                                                                    
percent, capital  budgets were $882 million  beginning in FY                                                                    
13, and costs  stayed flat statewide (with  the exception of                                                                    
retirement). He discussed that  under the scenario, deficits                                                                    
would  occur beginning  in 2015  and would  ultimately reach                                                                    
approximately  $3  billion;   financial  reserves  would  be                                                                    
exhausted  by 2025.  He communicated  that  the 3.2  percent                                                                    
growth rate  would result in  a substantial drop  in reserve                                                                    
declines and  would come close  to balancing the  budget. He                                                                    
explained that the  capital budget would not  remain at $882                                                                    
million  during  a  deficit.   He  provided  a  hypothetical                                                                    
scenario in  which the  capital budget  was reduced  to $500                                                                    
million, which would have helped to balance the budget.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:43:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.   Teal  continued   on  slide   2:  "Projected   Reserve                                                                    
Balances." The chart illustrated  how reserve balances would                                                                    
be impacted by a growth rate  of 7.8 percent versus a growth                                                                    
rate  of  3.2  percent.  With a  7.8  percent  growth  rate,                                                                    
reserves were  rapidly depleted and  would be gone  by 2025;                                                                    
however,  with  a  growth  rate  of  3.2  percent,  reserves                                                                    
remained at  approximately $20 billion.  He stressed  that a                                                                    
growth  rate   of  7.8  percent  was   not  sustainable.  He                                                                    
communicated  that  the  governor's  budget  made  a  strong                                                                    
effort to reign in the operating growth.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Teal  addressed slide 3  titled "Projected  Direct State                                                                    
Contributions to PERS and TRS,"  and relayed that retirement                                                                    
contributions also  had an impact  on the future  budget. He                                                                    
referred  to  the  state's decision  to  cap  the  Teachers'                                                                    
Public  Retirement System  (TRS) and  the Public  Employees'                                                                    
Retirement  System (PERS)  at 12.56  percent and  22 percent                                                                    
respectively.  He discussed  that  the  state had  initially                                                                    
believed  the costs  would  be  approximately $200  million,                                                                    
that they  would decline rapidly,  and that it would  be out                                                                    
of the business of state  assistance by 2020 or so; however,                                                                    
poor investment  returns beginning  in 2008 had  resulted in                                                                    
lost revenue. The losses led  to revised future earnings and                                                                    
actuarial assumptions  and an increased  unfunded retirement                                                                    
liability of  $450 million or  more in  FY 12 and  over $600                                                                    
million in  FY 13.  He elaborated  that the  liability would                                                                    
reach approximately $800 million by  FY 16 and would grow to                                                                    
approximately $1.2 billion per  year in subsequent years. He                                                                    
emphasized  the large  size of  the numbers  and noted  that                                                                    
current  K-12  education   funding  was  approximately  $1.2                                                                    
million.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:46:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Teal  informed the  committee that  there was  some good                                                                    
news  related  state  retirement costs.  He  explained  that                                                                    
Alaska's  system had  unique characteristics  that made  the                                                                    
standard  actuarial  analysis  obsolete. He  furthered  that                                                                    
Buck  Consultants,  the  state's  actuary,  had  modeled  an                                                                    
alternative  concept  showing  that   a  single  $2  billion                                                                    
contribution to PERS would be  sufficient to fund all future                                                                    
benefits   without   additional  state   contributions.   He                                                                    
communicated  that  the $2  billion  payment  to PERS  would                                                                    
result in a savings of  approximately $400 million per year.                                                                    
The state  would see its  $2 billion investment  returned in                                                                    
five  years and  by 2025  the  savings would  be above  $4.8                                                                    
billion.  He  stressed  that   the  total  operating  budget                                                                    
reduction would be over $7  billion by the time the unfunded                                                                    
PERS liability had  been paid off. Under  the Buck scenario,                                                                    
the state would spend $2  billion upfront, but it would have                                                                    
more reserves in 2025 than it  would if it continued to make                                                                    
annual contributions.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:48:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-chair  Fairclough wondered  whether "frontloading"  the                                                                    
PERS/TRS  obligations  would   improve  the  state's  credit                                                                    
rating.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Teal  did not know  whether the state would  be rewarded                                                                    
with  an improved  credit rating  if it  paid the  liability                                                                    
off; however, he did not  believe the payment would hurt its                                                                    
current  AAA   rating.  He  relayed  that   credit  agencies                                                                    
factored  multiple  items   into  ratings  including  future                                                                    
revenue  streams;  the  $2 billion  payment  would  make  an                                                                    
impact, but it  would not be as sizable as  one may hope. He                                                                    
opined that  credit based on  a retirement system  should be                                                                    
rated equally, but that was  not the case. He expounded that                                                                    
unlike most states, Alaska currently  funded its health care                                                                    
liabilities   and  stated   its  liability   more  honestly;                                                                    
however, states were all ranked the same.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara asked  whether the  $2 billion  payment                                                                    
would  sufficiently fund  the  current  and future  unfunded                                                                    
retirement liability.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Teal responded that the  actuarial model required a one-                                                                    
time payment of  $2 billion, which would  eliminate the need                                                                    
for future  contributions. The municipalities and  the state                                                                    
would continue to  pay their 22 percent  portion on payroll.                                                                    
He  clarified  that  the current  annual  payments  of  $300                                                                    
million to  $466 million (above  the 22 percent  rate) would                                                                    
stop.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara  asked  when the  retirement  liability                                                                    
would be paid down if the  state made the $2 billion payment                                                                    
combined with the annual 22  percent contributions. Mr. Teal                                                                    
asked  for  clarification  on the  question.  Representative                                                                    
Gara wondered  what would occur  in the last  year projected                                                                    
on slide 3 [FY 33].                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Teal replied that the  state would save approximately $5                                                                    
billion in what would have  been annual contributions to the                                                                    
retirement  fund.   Without  the  $2  billion   payment  the                                                                    
liability  would  not be  fully  funded  in the  future.  He                                                                    
explained  that money  would be  transferred from  a reserve                                                                    
account  to  make the  benefit  payments  if necessary.  The                                                                    
retirement model  did not completely eliminate  the unfunded                                                                    
liability  by  2029,  but  it did  eliminate  the  need  for                                                                    
additional payments above the 22 percent.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:52:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Doogan asked  whether the  model funded  the                                                                    
liability for both PERS and TRS.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Teal  replied  in  the negative.  The  TRS  system  was                                                                    
significantly worse off and had  a separate model; a payment                                                                    
of  $4 billion  would  be  required to  fix  the system.  He                                                                    
elaborated that the $4 billion  would save approximately the                                                                    
same amount that  would have been saved in  the PERS system.                                                                    
The state  would initially be  down $6 billion  in reserves,                                                                    
but reserves would  continue to grow and would  take time to                                                                    
recover.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Thomas  informed the committee that  there would be                                                                    
a more in-depth discussion on the issue at a later time.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stoltze remarked  that  there was  a much  broader                                                                    
concern  about the  system  that was  not  reflected in  the                                                                    
government   point  of   view.  He   referenced  constituent                                                                    
concerns related to dependence on a declining industry.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Teal agreed  that  there was  an  expenditure side  and                                                                    
revenue side of a budget  problem. The revenue side required                                                                    
a discussion  about oil production  taxes, which  was almost                                                                    
independent  from the  expenditure  side of  the budget.  He                                                                    
acknowledged   that  the   revenue  side   was  equally   as                                                                    
important, but  he was focused  on the  expenditure aspects.                                                                    
He emphasized  that the unfunded retirement  liability was a                                                                    
large driver  of the budget  and would become  a significant                                                                    
problem  in the  future; however,  he believed  there was  a                                                                    
solution.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Teal discussed  reasons LFD  analysts were  pessimistic                                                                    
about the future on slide 4  titled "FY 12/13 General Fund -                                                                    
Fiscal Sensitivity  Overlay." He explained that  the revenue                                                                    
curve was dependent  on price of oil; however,  each year as                                                                    
production declined the revenue  curve shifted downward. The                                                                    
curve was approximately  $900 million less in FY  13 than it                                                                    
had been in FY 12 under any  given price of oil; with oil at                                                                    
$95 per  barrel revenue was  approximately $7 billion  in FY                                                                    
12,  but  it was  under  $6  billion  in FY  13.  Production                                                                    
decline  would lead  profit loss  due to  lower tax  revenue                                                                    
combined  with  higher  capital  and  operating  costs.  The                                                                    
revenue curve  would shift downward and  the breakeven price                                                                    
of oil  would continue to  increase; the breakeven  rate had                                                                    
been  $94 per  barrel in  FY 12  and would  be approximately                                                                    
$100 per  barrel in FY 13.  He added that the  revenue curve                                                                    
shown  on  slide  1  took   the  declining  production  into                                                                    
account. The  decline was partially offset  by the increased                                                                    
price of oil.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:58:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Teal  relayed that the  second issue was related  to the                                                                    
governor's  proposed 3.2  percent  agency operations  growth                                                                    
rate,  which would  be difficult  to  achieve. He  expressed                                                                    
skepticism  about  the  plausibility of  the  proposed  $882                                                                    
million  capital budget.  He believed  it would  be hard  to                                                                    
stay at the proposed level  because there were several items                                                                    
missing  from the  budget. Education  funding  for K-12  was                                                                    
flat from the  prior year's budget and  typically every $100                                                                    
increase  in  the Base  Student  Allocation  (BSA) cost  $25                                                                    
million;  school boards  had discussed  a  $300 increase  in                                                                    
BSA, which equated to approximately  $75 million. The Alaska                                                                    
Gasline  Inducement  Act (AGIA)  had  been  short funded  by                                                                    
approximately $100  million. He  communicated that  the fuel                                                                    
trigger was at the same level  as the prior year and stopped                                                                    
at $100;  however, the projected  price of oil was  $109 per                                                                    
barrel.  Extending  the fuel  trigger  up  to the  projected                                                                    
price   of  oil   would  cost   approximately  $9   million.                                                                    
Additionally,  the  proposed  budget did  not  include  $3.5                                                                    
million in  actuarially required Judicial  Retirement System                                                                    
(JRS) contributions.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Teal  discussed that a  number of funds spent  more than                                                                    
they  brought   in  including,  fish   and  game,   oil  and                                                                    
hazardous,  worker's safety,  Alaska Marine  Highway System,                                                                    
the  Department  of  Natural Resources  land  disposal,  and                                                                    
others. He discussed that agencies  typically had to request                                                                    
additional general  funds when their normal  fund source was                                                                    
depleted. A  solution to the  structural problem  could take                                                                    
up to $20 million for  a one-time fix and significantly more                                                                    
for a longer term solution.  Unlike other states, Alaska did                                                                    
not  have sales  and income  taxes to  fix the  bulk of  its                                                                    
revenue problems. Alaska currently  depended on oil revenue;                                                                    
however, the resource-generated revenue  only lasted as long                                                                    
as  the  resource  itself.   He  communicated  that  without                                                                    
additional  oil production  the state  would be  forced into                                                                    
watching its  revenue decline. He  compared the state  to an                                                                    
individual  near  retirement  who  would  have  to  rely  on                                                                    
savings.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:03:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Teal emphasized that  increased current savings improved                                                                    
the likelihood that  the state could avoid  income and sales                                                                    
taxes and losing the Permanent  Fund Dividend in the future.                                                                    
He did  not believe the  FY 13 budget process  would involve                                                                    
dissecting the governor's increments  because there were not                                                                    
many  increments  on  a department-by-department  level.  He                                                                    
thought the  budget process would  focus on the  decision to                                                                    
spend  versus the  decision to  build reserves.  He believed                                                                    
that the combined importance of  the revenue and expenditure                                                                    
decisions made the  FY 13 budget cycle  critical to Alaska's                                                                    
future.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara pointed  to the  chart on  slide 4.  He                                                                    
referenced discussion that the  breakeven point would be $97                                                                    
per barrel  in the FY  13 budget.  He believed there  was an                                                                    
$80 million difference  between the FY 12 and  FY 13 budgets                                                                    
and wondered whether  the breakeven point would  be $103 per                                                                    
barrel if  the legislature  added $80 million  to the  FY 13                                                                    
budget.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Teal responded that point A  on slide 4 reflected the FY                                                                    
12 revenue curve and level  of spending. He relayed that the                                                                    
governor's FY 13  budget was $385 million lower  than the FY                                                                    
12 budget; although,  the governor had reported  it was $800                                                                    
million less. He explained that  the budget was $800 million                                                                    
less  if money  was not  put into  savings, but  he believed                                                                    
that it was  necessary to look at what was  spent and not at                                                                    
the savings  or transfers.  At the FY  12 revenue  curve the                                                                    
breakeven point  was $90 per  barrel, but point  C reflected                                                                    
the amount  under the  proposed FY  13 budget.  He explained                                                                    
that point  D showed what would  happen if the FY  13 budget                                                                    
was  increased to  the FY  12  level; the  level would  move                                                                    
beyond point  D if the FY  13 budget was increased  above FY                                                                    
12  spending. He  added that  the breakeven  point would  be                                                                    
$103 per barrel  if an additional $100 million  was added to                                                                    
the budget.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:06:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara  asked whether  the  chart  on slide  4                                                                    
showed an $800 million or  a $300 million difference between                                                                    
FY 12 and FY 13. Mr. Teal  answered that the FY 13 curve was                                                                    
$385 million less than the FY 12 curve.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara wondered  whether  the breakeven  point                                                                    
would  be approximately  $103 per  barrel  if an  additional                                                                    
$385 million were added to the budget.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Teal explained  that the lower line on  the chart (slide                                                                    
4) was  $385 million less  than the  $7 billion level  in FY                                                                    
12. He clarified  that the level would be at  point D on the                                                                    
chart if the budget was equal  to the FY 12 level. The point                                                                    
would reach  $103 per barrel  if an additional  $385 million                                                                    
was added to the FY 13 budget.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Representative Doogan  asked why  the governor's  budget was                                                                    
$385 million less than the prior year.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Teal  referred to page 8  of the FY 13  LFD budget book.                                                                    
The operating  costs were $253  million more than  the prior                                                                    
year;  however,  capital   expenditures  were  $638  million                                                                    
lower.  The  agency  operating budgets  had  been  increased                                                                    
between $150 million to $160  million; a significant portion                                                                    
was   due  to   non-formula  increases.   Medicaid  was   up                                                                    
approximately $45 million, but  K-12 education would require                                                                    
approximately  $17 million  less  in FY  13  due to  falling                                                                    
enrollment numbers.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Doogan deduced  that the  actual budget  was                                                                    
higher; however,  the capital budget  level included  by the                                                                    
governor was  less than it had  been for the past  couple of                                                                    
years. Mr. Teal responded in the affirmative.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:09:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Doogan   asked  whether  the   LFD  analysis                                                                    
included assumptions for  necessary additional spending that                                                                    
had been excluded from the governor's budget.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Teal  replied that additional expenditures  had not been                                                                    
built  in  to  the  analysis. He  believed  that  the  items                                                                    
"missing"  from  the  budget   made  it  difficult  for  the                                                                    
legislature to  achieve the governor's proposed  3.2 percent                                                                    
budget   growth.   He   did  not   know   which   additional                                                                    
expenditures the  legislature would include. He  provided an                                                                    
example and explained the legislature  may or may not decide                                                                    
to increase  the fuel trigger  because the increase  had not                                                                    
been requested  by the governor.  He did not know  why items                                                                    
such  as $3.5  million for  JRS had  not been  included; the                                                                    
legislature  could  decide  to   pay  off  the  $50  million                                                                    
unfunded  JRS   liability.  There   was  a  wide   range  of                                                                    
additional  money   that  could  be  spent,   which  totaled                                                                    
approximately  $200 million  to  $250  million; however,  he                                                                    
surmised that the amount was much less than $3.7 billion.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Doogan asked  whether the  governor had  not                                                                    
included sufficient funds in the FY 13 budget.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Teal replied that the  question was difficult to answer.                                                                    
He believed the governor had  done an excellent job reigning                                                                    
in agency operating money. He  noted that items such as AGIA                                                                    
may  have  received  "low-ball"  funding;  however,  it  was                                                                    
possible  that  the  governor  had  a  supplemental  funding                                                                    
request   plan.  Traditional   low-balling  that   sometimes                                                                    
happened on items such as  Medicaid had not occurred, and an                                                                    
FY 13  supplemental request for  the item was  not expected.                                                                    
Items that  had been  left out of  the budget  were optional                                                                    
fixes for the legislature.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Thomas  noted that the governor  had an opportunity                                                                    
to amend  the budget and  could include items that  had been                                                                    
left out.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:13:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Costello  pointed to a loss  of 280 positions                                                                    
reflected  in  the  governor's  budget  in  addition  to  an                                                                    
increase of $66  million for salaries and  benefits. She had                                                                    
learned that  departments had carried unfilled  positions in                                                                    
order  to  fund other  positions  and  wondered whether  the                                                                    
items were related.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Teal  replied  that  many  of  the  governor's  deleted                                                                    
positions had been vacant. The  purpose of the deletions was                                                                    
to  get rid  of long-term,  unfunded, vacant  positions. The                                                                    
division had worked  on the issue with OMB in  the past, but                                                                    
vacancy  factors were  complicated.  He did  not believe  it                                                                    
made sense  to leave a  vacant position in an  agency budget                                                                    
to fund another  position; however, it was  currently set up                                                                    
that  way. Additional  positions had  been included  for the                                                                    
operation  of the  Goose Creek  Correctional Center,  but he                                                                    
did not know  the net change in the  positions. He explained                                                                    
that the $66  million in salary increases  was primarily due                                                                    
to contractual  increases and the  3 percent cost  of living                                                                    
allowance  that were  not of  the agencies'  choosing. There                                                                    
had also been a substantial  increase in health benefits. He                                                                    
opined that $66 million was an accurate number.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:16:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Costello asked whether  the $66 million would                                                                    
have  been in  the  budget  if the  positions  had not  been                                                                    
deleted.  Mr.   Teal  responded   in  the   affirmative.  He                                                                    
explained that  the deleted positions  had no impact  on the                                                                    
$66 million that had been included.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gara  surmised that agencies had  spent money                                                                    
designated for  vacant positions on other  items and without                                                                    
the vacant  positions they  would be  unable to  continue to                                                                    
fund the items.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Teal responded that the  scenario represented one result                                                                    
that could occur.  He pointed to detail  about positions and                                                                    
vacancies in the LFD budget  analysis. He detailed that when                                                                    
the legislature  removed unfunded vacant positions  and also                                                                    
deleted  funding,  agencies did  not  have  enough money  to                                                                    
continue funding other items or positions.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:19:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gara  surmised that agencies may  have to lay                                                                    
off other  employees if unfilled positions  and funding were                                                                    
deleted.   Mr.   Teal   responded  in   the   negative.   He                                                                    
communicated that  the items had  been factored into  the FY                                                                    
13 budget.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
The meeting was adjourned at 2:20 PM.                                                                                           

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
LFD Overview HFC 01192012.pdf HFIN 1/19/2012 1:30:00 PM